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Author Topic: Senior (complete) feed vs. regular feeds  (Read 1844 times)
snipper11200us
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« on: November 09, 2010, 11:08:10 PM »

I've been reading labels like mad lately and can't see anything on the ingredients that makes a senior feed a "complete" (no hay needed) feed. 
For example, if you compare Nutrena Sr to its regular horse feed they are exactly alike except the regular one has 2% more fat and is $2 less a bag.  I know I'm missing something, but don't know what it is.  Naturally, I'd like to get the cheaper one but do need a complete feed for one of my horses.
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Mari Alice, 20 miles from civilization
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« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2010, 05:46:37 PM »

Look at the label on the farn & fleet "Agmaster" brand "complete 12 pellets" that feed is actually formulated to be able to feed it without hay for those senior horses who can no longer chew hay. My horse has been living off of it for at least the last 7 years and is doing great on it.
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mrsoasis440
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« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2010, 08:19:32 PM »

Look at the label on the farn & fleet "Agmaster" brand "complete 12 pellets" that feed is actually formulated to be able to feed it without hay for those senior horses who can no longer chew hay. My horse has been living off of it for at least the last 7 years and is doing great on it.

Is your horse able to eat hay?
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Some horses come into our lives and quickly go.
Others stay a while, make hoofprints on our hearts
and we are never, never the same."   Miss you Red Boy, Collin and Bonnie!
snipper11200us
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« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2010, 10:25:01 PM »

I understand that complete feed (senior) can be used without hay for horses that can't eat hay.  What I'm asking is what is the ingredient that makes it complete--I can't find it on the tag or list of ingredients. 
Thanks!
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Mari Alice, 20 miles from civilization
Brian
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« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2010, 11:16:00 PM »

I understand that complete feed (senior) can be used without hay for horses that can't eat hay.  What I'm asking is what is the ingredient that makes it complete--I can't find it on the tag or list of ingredients. 
Thanks!

I've always understood a complete feed as something that can be the sole diet of the horse.  Because of the horse's need for fiber to maintain a healthy digestive tract, the first thing you should look at is the Crude Fiber % on the Guaranteed Analysis.  I want to see this above 20% if I'm not going to feed any hay.   Crude Fiber doesn't say what is digestible or not, so it's important to know what ingredients are used.  Look for ingredients such as soy hulls, beet pulp, and alfalfa meal.  I would stay away from anything that has rice hulls since they are 100% not digestible by the horse.

Some companies choose to list ingredients using collective terms such as "roughage products" or "forage products".   Collective terms make it difficult to know exactly what is being used as the fiber source. 

Here is a list of "roughage products"

Roughage products.
1. Almond hulls, ground
2. Apple pectin pulp, dried
3. Apple pomace, dried
4. Bagasse
5. Barley hulls
6. Barley mill by-product
7. Beet pulp, dried
8. Buckwheat hulls
9. Citrus meal, dried
10. Citrus pulp, dried
11. Citrus seed meal
12. Corn cob fractions
13. Cottonseed hulls
14. Flax straw by-product
15. Husks
16. Malt hulls
17. Oat hulls
18. Oat mill by-products
19. Oat mill by-products, clipped
20. Peanut hulls
21. Rice hulls
22. Rice mill by-product
23. Rice mill run
24. Soybean hulls
25. Soybean mill feed
26. Soybean mill run
27. Sunflower hulls
28. Straw, ground
29. Tomato pomace, dried


Here is the list of forage products

1. Alfalfa hay, ground
2. Alfalfa meal, dehydrated
3. Alfalfa meal, sun cured
4. Coastal bermuda grass hay
5. Corn plant, dehydrated
6. Dehydrated silage (Ensilage pellets)
7. Flax plant product
8. Ground grass
9. Lespedeza meal
10. Lespedeza stem meal
11. Soybean hay, ground

Hope this helps.
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snipper11200us
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« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2010, 11:42:40 PM »

Brian, I hoped you were around--thank you so much (and everyone else, too)!  The list is exactly what I wanted plus I didn't know about the 20% fibre, either.

The tags I've been looking at only have products listed and I know that's not real high quality feed but the ones with "real" grains listed are just too high priced these days so I've had to use the lesser quality feeds.
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Mari Alice, 20 miles from civilization
snipper11200us
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« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2010, 11:45:51 PM »

PS:  are protein products stuff like chicken beaks and hog tails?  Always wondered.....
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Mari Alice, 20 miles from civilization
Brian
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« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2010, 01:45:48 AM »

PS:  are protein products stuff like chicken beaks and hog tails?  Always wondered.....

Protein sourcea should be listed as either "animal protein" or "plant protein". 

Animal Protein Products could be any one of ...

1. Animal blood, dry
2. *Animal by-product meal
3. Buttermilk, condensed
4. Buttermilk, dried
5. Casein
6. Casein, dry hydrolyzed
7. Cheese rind
8. Crab meal
9. Fish by-product
10. Fish liver and glandular meal
11. Fish meal
12. Fish protein concentrate
13. Fish residue meal
14. Fish solubles, condensed
15. Fish solubles, dried
16. * Fleshings hydrolysate
17. *Hydrolyzed hair
18. *Hydrolyzed leather meal
19. Hydrolyzed poultry by-product aggregate
20. Hydrolyzed poultry feathers
21. Lactalbumin, dried
22. Leather hydrolysate
23. *Meat and bone meal
24. *Meat and bone meal tankage
25. *Meat by-products
26. *Meat meal
27 *Meat meal tankage
28. *Meat solubles, dried
29. Milk, dried whole
30. Milk protein, dried
31. Poultry by-products
32. Poultry by-product meal
33. Poultry hatchery by-products
34. Shrimp meal
35. Skimmed milk, condensed
36. Skimmed milk, condensed cultured
37. Skimmed milk, dried
38. Skimmed milk, dried cultured

Plant Protein Products could be any one of...

1. Algae meal
2. Beans, dried
3. Canola meal
4. Coconut meal
5. Cottonseed cake
6. Cottonseed flake
7. Cottonseed meal
8. Cottonseed meal, low gossypol
9. Cottonseed, whole-pressed
10. Guar meal
11. Linseed meal
12. Peanut meal
13. Peas
14. Potato protein
15. Rapeseed meal
16. Safflower meal
17. Soy flour
18. Soy grits
19. Soybean feed
20. Soybean meal
21. Soybean meal, kibbled
22. Soy protein concentrate
23. Soybeans ground
24. Soybeans heat processed
25. Sunflower meal
26. Sunflower meal dehulled
27. Yeast, active dry
28. Yeast, Brewers dried
29. Yeast culture
30. Yeast, dried
31. Yeast, primary dried
32. Yeast, torula dried

If you Google #19, this is what you'll find....

"A process for the conversion of feathers into a foodstuff is disclosed wherein moistened feathers are subjected to an elevated temperature and a pressure of 15-40 psig without agitation to form a pulpy mass of the feathers. The pulpy mass of feathers is then hydrolyzed at a pressure of 40-80 psig, to convert the feathers into a highly nutritious food product. The converted feathers can be dried to form a highly nutritious feather meal or combined with other poultry by-products such as offal or blood to form an aggregate or mixture of these by-products."
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BCsMom
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« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2010, 02:04:00 AM »

Look at the label on the farn & fleet "Agmaster" brand "complete 12 pellets" that feed is actually formulated to be able to feed it without hay for those senior horses who can no longer chew hay. My horse has been living off of it for at least the last 7 years and is doing great on it.

Is your horse able to eat hay?

Mrsoasis440,
No my horse is not really able to eat hay.  She might get a little down however most of it is just turned into wads.  She is able to get short grass down however she only has 4 molars max at this point.  But she's my sweet 29 year old super senor so I’m not really surprised
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BCsMom
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« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2010, 02:32:05 AM »

Okay I just had to pick up a bag of the complete 12 pellets that I feed my horse today so I figured I would post the label on the bag.

Agrimaster Complete 12 Pellets for Horses

Crude Protein                        min 12%
Crude Fat                             min 3%
Crude Fiber                           max 21%
Calcium                               min 0.5% max 1.0%
Phosphorus                          min 0.4%
Cooper                                min 30PPM
Selenium                             min 0.3PPM
Zinc                                    min 100PPM
Vitamin A                            min 7,000 IU/LB
Vitamin D                            min 175 IU/LB
Vitamin E                            min 40 IU/LB

Ingredients: grain products, plant protein, processed grain by-products, roughage products, forage products, molasses products, vitamin a supplement, vitamin d supplement, vitamin e supplement, vitamin b12 supplement, riboflavin supplement, folic acid, biotin, thiamine mononitrate, calcium carbonate, salt, magnesium mica, manganous oxide, manganese sulfate, ferrous sulfate, ferrous carbonate, copper chloride, copper sulfate, zinc oxide, zinc sulfate, ethylenediamine dihydriodide, cobalt carbonate, calcium iodate, sodium selenite.


This is formulated to be fed as a complete feed and does have feeding instructions for adult and older horses when being fed no hay in addition to this feed.


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mrsoasis440
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« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2010, 12:43:20 PM »

This is exactly what our ancient pony is doing.  Turning her hay into hay wads.  I'm trying to avoid her starving to death this winter, and have been looking for feed suggestions....last year was alfalfa cubes, senior and beat-pulp.    So this  topic was very helpful to me...  Thanks all   Smiley
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Some horses come into our lives and quickly go.
Others stay a while, make hoofprints on our hearts
and we are never, never the same."   Miss you Red Boy, Collin and Bonnie!
BCsMom
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« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2010, 03:27:29 PM »

mrsoasis440:
This is exactly what our ancient pony is doing.  Turning her hay into hay wads.  I'm trying to avoid her starving to death this winter, and have been looking for feed suggestions....last year was alfalfa cubes, senior and beat-pulp.    So this  topic was very helpful to me...  Thanks all   Smiley

mrsoasis440,
My horse has been happily been making hay wads for years (over 7 years now). With the pellets that I've mentioned she has been doing great and holds her weight nicely. She also prefers to winter outside so is only inside at night if it is icy out in her field.

Btw the only reason my girl is given hay is for her to play with it and think she is getting fed like everyone else. So once she finishes her pellets she gets to play with her less than half a flake of hay for her to make a mess with. Its kind of cute to be honest.
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blwnkljmus
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« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2010, 05:01:43 PM »

For you guys that have the oldsters that just quid their hay... I have a friend with a horse that has the same problem. She cuts the hay into 3-4" pieces with hedge trimmers and her guy is able to eat it pretty well.
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BCsMom
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« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2010, 07:00:43 PM »

blwnkljmus,
We tried that once for my girl and it led to a very scary bout of choke. I won't repeat that again.

She's fine out in pasture with her girls where she's smart however we can't hand graze her anymore as she will try and swallow something she shouldn't.

Honestly if you have an older horse I've found its best to adapt to what works for them. And for us pellets work the best for us.
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blwnkljmus
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« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2010, 09:34:37 AM »

Honestly if you have an older horse I've found its best to adapt to what works for them. And for us pellets work the best for us.

Absolutely. Just thought I'd throw that idea out as an option.

There IS value in just giving them hay to chew on even if they can't actually eat it.
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